Viewpoint 03: Val Emanuel
This week’s viewpoint is with the phenomenal Val Emanuel.
“We trusted each other and we were able to build on that. So that's the inception of the agency.”
—About Val
Val is an Entrepreneur, Mother and Earth Activist. Val is a true embodiment of what a role model is. She's created the most incredible community and army of role models all over the world who are creating positive change as the co-founder of @rolemodelsmgmt with Anne-Therese. Follow Val and her amazing work here.
“Brands need to stop being in fear and speak up what they believe in”
— Examples of inclusivity we can learn from
Timberland
“They've always been big on very inclusive campaigns. They've always included, you know, not just who's popular at the moment, but spoken word artists and people who are fighting for the environment”
— Val’s Actions to create a more inclusive industry
Co-founder of Role Models Management
“I thought that it was really important that we showcased the different varieties of people…what we do is standing up for our clients, advocating for equal rights, equal pay”
— What does a fully inclusive industry look like?
“For me, inclusive starts on the inside…if you have two minds that think alike, like you've just got, how far can you really go?”
— Actions the INDUSTRY can take to make the fashion industry more inclusive
Brands to stop being afraid of speaking up on issues
“I really want brands to reflect on what their internal values and what their mission are and then support.”
— Actions WE can take as individuals we can take to make the fashion industry more inclusive
Educate ourselves as much as we can
“ We all just need to be educating ourselves from what we see, because we know that there's so many things in the media, you can't tell what’s real, but everybody has access to information now”
—Transcript
Laura: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. Welcome to The Inclusive Viewpoint. Hope you are all having a good day and thank you so much for joining us. Our Viewpoint this week is with the inspirational Val Emanuel.
Rachel: Val is the co-founder of the phenomenal Role Model Management, and she is a true embodiment of what a role model is. She's created the most incredible community and army of role models all over the world who are creating positive change.
[00:00:24] We are so lucky to know her, and we're even more excited to have her with us today on The Inclusive Viewpoint.
Laura: Hi Val, how are you?
Val: Hi, you guys. I'm good. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast today. I know I told you I was feeling a little sick earlier, not from Corona, but just from, you know, woman problems. [00:00:43] So I'm happy to be talking to you guys and just sitting down and relaxing in my house.
Rachel: Awww, thanks so much Val, honestly. Awww you’re just the best for soldiering on so thank you so so much. It’s great to have you with us.
Laura: So we've briefly touched on your background but we would love to hear [00:01:00] from you more about yourself in your own words.
Val: Well, I am born and raised in Los Angeles, so, um, my parents are, I'm a first generation American. [00:01:11] My mom was from Panama and my dad’s from Antigua and they've always had a super hard work ethic. So, um, at the age of two, when I was scouted by a talent agent, I mean, my mom thought it was a great idea for me to start modeling. So I always tell people I've been working since I was two years old. So I basically, I was an adult when I was like 14. [00:01:30] Um, But yeah, I mean, I really fell in love with the entertainment industry. There were a lot of parts of it that were super toxic. So I kind of, you know, took a lot of those things on, in a negative way because when you're a young girl, you don't really know much about yourself. I mean, there's things that were told to me about my body and my nose and my hairline, like things that I was born with and I couldn't really change. [00:01:53] And I didn't realize that there is, you know, a good way to talk to someone about things. And there [00:02:00] is also a toxic way and the way the entertainment industry works, a lot of ways is by basically fearing people into changing, you know, people telling their clients or agents telling their clients to get nose jobs or boob jobs or liposuction. [00:02:14] I mean, so many things like that. So I started to carry that until I was 18. And then I quit modeling. I'm going to just close my window right now, it's less, it's less noisy. Um, and then I quit modeling and I decided to do it on my own. And, um, I started to book myself on jobs and start to book my friends on jobs. [00:02:31] And I just made a lot of great relationships and I realized that you didn't have to completely conform to work. And so I just started kind of saying, I want to start my own agency and I would just tell this to people. And finally, this woman, um, Marci Zaroff had, um, an intern who is my co-founder Anne Therese [00:02:50] who was also saying that the industry sucked and that she wants to start her own agency, and she's like, you guys should totally connect and you guys could even call your agency ‘Role Models’. Like she came up with [00:03:00] the name, Marci Zaroff, neither of us so that was amazing. And we connected via email and I think three months later I filed the paperwork and I was like, ‘let's do this’.
[00:03:09] Um, and we didn't even meet for like six months into starting the agency. We just talked on the phone, but we trusted each other. Um, and we were able to build on that. So that's the inception of the agency.
Rachel: Oh, I love that story. It’s such girl power as well isn’t it. I absolutely love it.
So the first question we wanted to ask, so obviously, as a model and through Role Model Management, you obviously work with a lot of brands, and the models you represent work with a lot of brands. [00:03:36] So we wanted to ask you, you know, can you share any examples? It might be of friends, it might be a model, you know, leaders, anyone or anything you can think of who have really shown examples of putting inclusivity at the heart.
Val: Yeah. You know, one brand that I really, really like to work with is Timberland. [00:03:58] Timberlands you know, a boot [00:04:00] company that's famous worldwide, and there's somebody who's really shifted as the world has shifted. Right. They've always been big on, um, very inclusive campaigns. They've always included, you know, not even just who's popular at the moment, but spoken word artists and people who are fighting for the environment and real people on the street. [00:04:20] And, you know, it's never been like, ‘Oh, let's get a black person in our campaign’. It's always been like, we really appreciate this culture and how they've made our shoes a part of their identity. And so we're going to lift them up. So working with Timberland, I always find that when they're casting, they ask for a full explanation of [00:04:40] you know, who is this person, like how are they going to be a great advocate for our brand? And they're not someone who just sends us a breakdown of, of sizes, and this is what color their hair needs to be. They really do try to make sure that because their brand is shifting to be, you know, recycled and [00:05:00] um, and responsible as it can be with leather, how are we going to have people in our campaign to reflect our values? [00:05:06] And so that's amazing. I'm like when a big brand takes so much time and effort in their breakdowns to find the right person, a small brand can do it, you know, like every brand can, can put in that effort and do the due diligence to make sure that they are bringing in, um, an audience of consumers who, who cares more about just how something looks, but what's behind it.
Rachel: [00:05:28] I love that example. I think that’s such a strong example. And I think it really shows, you know, it's about the person, you know, it's not about the way somebody looks on the outside. Model's are so much more than that. Yeah, I remember when I found Role Model Management when we were looking for models and we wanted everything you explained, you know, people who are, you know, really representing the values and creating positive change. [00:05:50] And I think like, yeah, we were just so happy when we found and when we first emailed you. So I think that's such a good example.
And so the next question I wanted to ask as well, as I know you do [00:06:00] incredible work and we’re massive fans of what you and Anne do., But if you could share a bit more detail, you know, about some of the initiative you’ve been doing to drive inclusivity forward in the fashion industry.
Val: [00:06:12] Yeah. I think one of the major things that we've done from the beginning of the agency, I remember when we wanted to be a, in the beginning boutique and boutique agencies are great, right? Because they maybe have a host of like 30 or 40 models. But the thing about being boutique is that you kind of have to have like two of each or one of this person. [00:06:31] And, and I just, I didn't want to do that. I don't want to be an agency where we're like, we have like one Asian and like one Black guy and like three blondes and then three brunettes and two Latinas. Like I just thought that was kind of crazy because it creates. First of all, I think a kind of high competition between your clients and you also aren't giving the clients the right to choose from so many diverse people. [00:06:54] I'm like, yes, I've got like, you know, six Black girls with short hair, but they're from [00:07:00] different countries. They speak different languages, which is, I mean, this one's vegan and this one's a fitness instructor, like they're all so different. So, um, our board has grown to be about 140 models now, and it's not hard to manage all these clients because we're direct booking. [00:07:13] It's like, I'm not dealing with all these models every single day, all day. Um, we probably work with like 20 of our clients a week, and then it just kinda goes from, you know, different clients and different needs. But I thought that it was really important that we showcased the different varieties of people, because a lot of agencies, like when I was a model they were like, ‘I just want to let you know right now that like you’re Black and Black models don't work that much’. [00:07:42] So like ‘don't expect to make more money’. And also ‘Black models have lower rates’. Like these were the things that they literally told me to my face. And unfortunately, you know, those things were true and they still are true. I've gotten, I had people email me things and they go, this is the rate for, you know, the Asian model. [00:07:59] And this is the rate for [00:08:00] the white model and this is the rate for the Black model and their different rates, but they're doing the same work and we're not going to take that any more in the industry. It's like, if people email me, things like that, they will be put on blast. You can't do that. And they, I seen people, um, value skin color, less than others, you know? [00:08:20] So I, what we do is kind of just like standing up for our clients, advocating for equal rights, equal pay, um, especially when it comes to influencers, as you guys know, I mean, Black influencers get shadow banned at a crazy rate on Instagram and they can't tag partners and they can't be found. And so, uh, advertisers pay them less. [00:08:43] So we're trying to bring these things to the light and we're also trying to just help to give all of our influencers a platform where we feel like they have a whole group of models who are with them and supporting all of their causes. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's like a family. It really is. [00:09:00] So that's, that's really what we can do. Um, I mean, besides the fact that, you know, we accept their payments from our clients and also we pay our models on a really like easy time schedule. Like you get paid within a week of doing the job, you know? And so just kind of not taking advantage of the people who are most vulnerable is also a way that we're trying to move the industry forward.
Rachel: [00:09:24] That is so shocking, I can't even believe that is even happening. It's just honestly shocking. Because I think you introduced us I think to, you know, Leanne Maskel the founder of the Model Manifesto and we worked on, um, with the UK government by submitting evidence for body image. And there was a model called Temica Thompson. [00:09:42] I don't know if you know her, but um, she knew Leanne and she was, I think when we were sharing, you know, experiences it came up that, you know, a Black model people pick, you know, like a Black model to represent non-white and they don't, like you said, they just think, you know, I'll pick one non white model and that represents, you know, all, non-white [00:10:00] people.
[00:10:00] And like you said, hearing experiences like that just makes you realize how much work there is still to do. Do you know what I mean? It's just shocking.
So thanks so much for sharing that Val.
So the next question we had was, and it is quite a big question. Everyone says this is a quite a big question.
[00:10:17] But we wanted to ask, what does inclusivity mean to you personally? You know, and what would a fully inclusive fashion industry like look like to you? So what are you working towards? What's the big vision? What's the big picture?
Val: Ah, I think for me, uh, inclusive starts on the inside. So one of the things that, you know, we don't have to struggle with our agency is diversity. [00:10:41] It's like, you know, I'm Black and Latina and you know, we've always had like Asian on our team, white on our team, European American. I just like, I realize that some people do like as a Black woman, when I've walked into a room, sometimes they just [00:11:00] automatically think that I won't relate to them. So even if I'm a candidate, I can't be a pick because it's like, ‘Oh, I already had an idea that like, she'll cause a problem’. [00:11:09] Or like, ‘she'll speak up too much’ or whatever. I'm like, that's literally been told to me before, and it's crazy, you know, like you're, you're not going to be able to vibe with our team because like we're all Ivy league and we've grown up this way with this amount of money. So I think is really having people from different socioeconomic backgrounds working [00:11:29] and then you need to also, you know, like as a recruiter, what I would do and I encourage people to do is don't just go to the Ivy league schools to recruit because you're only going to get one type of thought your brand is never going to be able to grow as much as it could if you had, you know, people from all these different [00:11:49] you know, college backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds and racial backgrounds. It's like what we can bring, we can bring to the table, um, with our different [00:12:00] opinions, we'll grow your business. It's just like, if you have two minds that think alike, like you've just got, how far can you really go? So I think that recruiters need to think about that. [00:12:09] And I'm not going to say, ‘Oh, bring in 10 Black candidates’. It's like, just where are you looking if you're not finding Black candidates there, if you're not finding Asian candidates with Hispanic candidates. Okay. So move on to another website, you know, and move on to maybe like a Black alumni association. [00:12:27] Why don't you email them to, to email their whole email roster and see what kind of resumes you can get there? Um, so you have to go out of your way a little bit, but once you go out of your way, like just go to a different website or make one email, it's gonna make all the difference.
Rachel: Yeah, I know. I think it's that classic line [00:12:44] isn't it? You know, we didn't get enough applicants from this group or this group and you, like you said like, well, why don't you look somewhere else? Do you know what I mean? I think that is a practical tip that everybody can do, so definitely.
And so the final two questions, it’s gone quite quickly hasn’t it? [00:13:00]
So the first question is, you know, it's all about action and we really wanted to make The Inclusive Viewpoint [00:13:06] to talk about and highlight actions that we can all take.
So the first one is, at an industry level, what actions do you think still need to be taken and can be taken to create a fully inclusive fashion industry?
Val: And that's a good question. I feel like, uh, A. brands need to stop being afraid of speaking up for what's going on in the world. [00:13:30] It's really easy for brands to think that they're going to lose customers if they see Black Lives Matter, or they're going to lose customers, if they're like justice for this group of people. Um, but I don't want brands to feel like they're forced or they're doing it because people are telling them to, I really want brands to reflect on what their internal values and what their mission are and then support, [00:13:53] you know, support foundations that are working with those things. If women's rights matter, don't be afraid to speak [00:14:00] up about human trafficking. If Black lives matter, don't be afraid to, you know what I mean? Like hire more Black people and see how you guys have dismissed a whole group of people. Um, so I think that there's just a lot of fear around being politically correct [00:14:15] and I don't know if you guys ever heard me talk on my, on my Instagram, my stories, but I don't care about being politically correct. Like I grew up with, you know, a dad who's pretty conservative and a mom is pretty liberal. So I feel like I can speak from both sides. Um, and a lot of people just want you to be trapped in like a little box. [00:14:33] So, uh, yeah I mean, you see brands like Nike doing it and people burning their Nike's, but then millions of people being like, yes, thank you for standing up for me. So, I mean, cancel culture is real, but nobody really gets canceled. I'm like if you're making something that people really love and you know, when people calm down and walk out of the smoke sometimes like, okay, they took a stand, [00:14:56] I may not have agreed with it, but that takes courage. Um, [00:15:00] so I think brands just need to stop being in fear just speak up what they believe in.
Rachel: Yeah, I think that's something that I think you said it on your Instagram as well, but particularly following like the Black Lives Matter movement and obviously the terrible murders that happened [00:15:13] and are still happening. But I think a key message was, you know, silence like it's not an option. Like you need to, you know what I mean? We won't stand for silence anymore and I think that's something that really came out of 2020. And I think is a really important message that, you know, if you don't agree with something, you need to, you know, speak up and stand up about it because otherwise it will just carry on [00:15:34] and that's something that you live and breathe as well Val because I know you are always standing up for what you believe in, so yeah, thank you for doing that.
Val: Yeah and educate yourself. I mean, I think these brands, a lot of people need to educate themselves. Because I don't just like go and repost something like when I see something, I go, I Google it. I go to YouTube. [00:15:51] I text my friends who like work in newsrooms. I'm like, okay, I just saw this happen like, please break this down for me because I want to donate [00:16:00] and I want to tell people to swipe up and do X, Y, and Z, but I can't just blindly follow sheep. And I think that's what some people do when you see all this reposting, especially on Twitter and different sites. [00:16:10] And I'm going ‘no’. I mean, once you educate yourself, if it really like, if your tears are falling out after you've educated yourself, then do something about it. Like some of my friends don't use their Instagram for social advocacy, but you can text your friends like this is where I donated today. You can, you know, use your email list, just use your voice [00:16:28] however you feel, not saying your Instagram has to be a place for social justice, if you only log in once a month anyway but, um, I think we all just need to be educating ourselves from what we see, because we know that there's so many things in the media, you can't tell what’s real, but everybody has access to information now.
Rachel: [00:16:46] Yeah, no, definitely. I think that brings us on to our final question. So we wanted to ask, you know, what can we be doing? You doing, you know, everybody listening as individuals to kind of create that inclusive industry that we want to see every [00:17:00] day. So I know you mentioned about education, but is there any other kind of tips and actions people can start doing today and obviously practice every day as well?
Val: [00:17:09] Yeah, I think, um, one thing that's the best thing that I've done in the past. Um, since June 1st is I started to unfollow a lot of brands and a lot of people who didn't align with my values and I started following action-based Instagram accounts. Like I don't like people who just repost all this negative stuff and you're like, ;Oh, that's happening?’ [00:17:31] and ‘Oh, that's happening’. I started following people who are informing on their Instagram lives and they've always got the best link for how I can take action and make phone calls and send letters and petition here. So I started following a lot of those people and like, yes, this person has a really cute Instagram, but like, they were totally silent when, when George Floyd was killed. [00:17:53] And like, you know, I understand your page is fashion but you were too silent. And that's a little bit scary. So I did have [00:18:00] to unfollow a lot of people. And I think that's where you can start is just by starting to bring in more action-based awareness into your daily life. Because I do think that we are influenced by what we see everyday. [00:18:13] We're taking in more information now, uh, in one day than people did for their entire lifetimes a thousand years ago, you know, so let that information be good information because it will encourage you to start to make a difference.
Rachel: Yeah, no, definitely. I think a practical tip is everybody go follow who Val is following and then we’ll have actions to take. [00:18:34] So I think that's so true. I think it's so important, like you said, because you know, it's the old saying when it's like you’re the makeup of the five people you spend the most time with. And if you spend time on social media, following, you know, like the same accounts, you're not really going to expose yourself to, you know, diversity and inclusion and different voices [00:18:53] like you said, different things. It’s such a closed room, isn’t it and a closed viewpoint so that's a really good [00:19:00] practical tips that we can all do, you know, straight away if we haven't already. So thanks so much Val, that’s amazing.
Yeah. That went really quick. So we just wanted to say a massive thank you Val. We always love speaking to you and it's just always so uplifting and so inspiring when we speak to you. [00:19:14] So thank you so much for joining us today on The Inclusive Viewpoint.
Val: Thanks so much, ladies, I can't wait to see you in person. Like come on world.
Rachel: Hurry up so we can meet, stop being so selfish world.
Val: Definitely, right!
Rachel: Thanks Val!