Viewpoint 05: Isabella Silvers
We were so excited to be joined by the inspirational Isabella Silvers.
“I don't see things as one person or one brand…I think one inclusive campaign is amazing, but it doesn't always equal inclusivity behind the scenes.”
—About Isabella
Isabella Silvers is an associate editor at Hearst Studio, co-chair of the company's BAME network and part of Hearst Diversity and Inclusion steering group. She has also recently launched ‘Mixed Messages’ a weekly newsletter all about the mixed-race experience (subscribe to the amazing weekly newsletter here). We first met Isabella last year and is a true trailblazer and innovator in her field, who makes us so hopeful and inspired about the future of the industry. Follow Isabella and her phenomenal work here.
“I am also co—chair of the company's BAME network. It was the first network, but certainly not the last we've since had—a parent network and LGBTQ+ network and a Jewish network that started as well.”
— Examples of inclusivity we can learn from
Channel 4, in particular the ‘Meet The Superhumans’ advert
ASOS magazine
“Sharmaine Lovegrove publishes the most incredible BAME voices, and a lot of those intersectional as well so they might touch on LGBTQ+ issues and disability.”
— Isabella’s Actions to create a more inclusive industry
Pitching stories from diverse and inclusive perspectives
Being a part of Hearst’s Diversity & Inclusion steering group- reviewing all of their processes and systems to make sure that they are inclusive
Co-chair of Heart’s BAME network that aims to lift up BAME people in Hearst
Sharing her learnings
“I had a privilege, I had power and I had a responsibility to make change.”
— What does a fully inclusive industry look like?
“We all have different things and it's important for us all to feel like all of that is accepted…all of those different sides of you should be represented.”
— Actions the INDUSTRY can take to make the fashion industry more inclusive
Know the power of your influence and think “What could I be doing in this particular role in this particular company to make a difference?”
Know your unconscious bias
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable
Put in the work
“It's about listening when you don't have that experience and taking someone's opinion on board.”
— Actions WE can take as individuals we can take to make the fashion industry more inclusive
Shop from inclusive brands e.g. shopping from Black-owned businesses (Check out Jamii)
Know what we can do
“Use our privilege and use our voice always where it's safe, call out racism, homophobia, bi—phobia, Islamophobia, whatever it might be, don't stand for it.”
—Transcript
Laura: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. Hope you are all well. Thank you so much for joining us today on this installment of The Inclusive Viewpoint. Our viewpoint today is with the amazing Izzy Silvers who we met last year at the We Are The City awards in London
Rachel: The We Are The City awards are founded by Vanessa Vallely OBE. And we were so over the moon [00:00:20] to be sat on a table with Izzy. She is a true trailblazer and innovator in her field, and is always pushing forward her ideas for a more inclusive world. Therefore we're so honored to be joined by Izzy today so let's get started.
Laura: Hi Izzy, amazing to see you. How are you?
Izzy: I'm good. I’m honored to be with you too. How are you both?
Rachel: [00:00:45] Yeah, we’re good. We’re glad it’s Friday - that’s always good.
Definitely, definitely.
Laura: To get started, we'd love to hear more about you as an introduction.
Izzy: Yes. So, um, as you said, I'm Izzy Silvers. I am an associate editor at Hearst Studio, so we publish everything [00:01:00] from Cosmo to Men's Health, Women's Health, Delish, Digital Spy, Prima, Insights so kind of you name the topic, we've got it covered. Um, I work in our commercial content studio. [00:01:12] So I work with our brands and with clients to produce really engaging content that’s sponsored, but still really fits within our brand style. Um, on top of that, I am also co-chair of the company's BAME network. It was the first network, but certainly not the last we've since had, um, a parent network and LGBTQ+ network and A Jewish network that started as well. [00:01:39] And I'm also a key part of Hearst Diversity and Inclusion steering group.
Rachel: Wow, you’ve got a lot of things going on and they’re all absolutely incredible, so were so excited to hear a bit more about them.
So the first question we wanted to ask, so we're really passionate about, you know, sharing examples that we can all learn from and really driving forward an inclusive industry. [00:02:00] So we wondered if you could share, you know, any brands, it could be journalists, you know, media publications, you know, it could be anyone or anything that you can think of who were really shown examples of putting inclusivity at the heart.
Izzy: Big question. I think. I think the thing that I would say kind of before I go into my examples is that I don't kind of see things as one person or one brand or, you know, I think one inclusive campaign is amazing, but it doesn't always [00:02:36] equal inclusivity behind the scenes. So I think there are loads of good things that brands have done, and some of them might be crazy inclusive behind the scenes and that's amazing, but for some of them they've still got some way to go, but I do see, you know, there is a lot of debate over whether it's, um, trying to put an inclusive face on something [00:02:57] that's not actually that great behind the scenes, but [00:03:00] I think there are positives to be taken from that and it could be not a means to an end, but, you know, it's representation for someone who might then see that and might feel better about themselves. Even though the company still has issues that they need to work on, um, but in terms of brands, I think Nike the campaigns that they've done, the ways that they choose to align themselves with, um, Anti-Racism in sports, particularly, the representation that they have in their adverts, especially their UK adverts I think always do a great job of [00:03:37] representing their true consumer. Um, and I think that's amazing. Channel 4 as well. I remember there, um, I think it was the superhero Paralympians advert which was incredible. Amazing. And again, just gave disabled people, um, or if they prefer to call themselves differently abled, you know, gave people with certain needs that [00:04:00] representation that they've never seen before and for children as well, to be able to turn on the TV and see people who look like them being celebrated is amazing.
[00:04:10] Um, in books, you've got a publisher like Dialogue Books who, um, Sharmaine Lovegrove heads that up and she publishes them most incredible BAME voices, and a lot of those intersectional as well so they might touch on LGBTQ+ issues. Again, might touch on disability. And that's really important in terms of magazines. [00:04:31] I think, I think ASOS magazine I don’t know if it's closed now, but ASOS magazine I always used to love dropping through my front door and I remember I would always used to buy on ASOS and then return it just so I'd keep getting the magazine. But again, just the faces and the skin colors and the body shapes and the personalities that I was seeing in there [00:04:52] we're just really representative and really inclusive. I think it goes without saying as well, that Vogue is doing amazing stuff. [00:05:00] Edward and Vanessa and the rest of the team there as well. Ever since he's come to the helm, I've seen big changes and that's in terms of Race and age and size. So I think that's really important. [00:05:15] Um, but also I do think at Hearst we've done some good stuff. I think Cosmo is one of our kind of shining light brands. Um, I know Paisley Gilmour, who is the sex and relationships editor, personally she's a friend, but it, you know, even before we kind of got to know each other, her work on making that sex, relationships and love section so inclusive, whether it's with just the stock images that she's choosing to use, or the stories that she's trying to tell. [00:05:44] I think Cosmo has always been amazing and putting Tess Holliday on the front cover as well. Putting Jonathan Van Ness, obviously someone who is non-binary on the front cover. I think, yeah, I think Hearst brands do, we have a, we have a claim to stake, but [00:06:00] yeah, like I said, with all these different brands, there's so many different places and a lot of young journalists as well, surfacing these stories, but no one's perfect [00:06:09] and everyone always has room to grow.
Rachel: Yeah, no, definitely. And that's what we wanted to do with The Inclusive Viewpoint. It’s so important to share examples and making sure those examples, you know, turn into the norm everyday, like at the forefront of every decision. So I think you've given us so much examples and a lot to think about. [00:06:26] So it's brilliant.
So I'm really excited to ask you the next question because I know you've been doing absolutely incredible work, like, since we met and even before we met, but we were wondering if you could share, you know, in your own words, you know, some of the initiatives you’ve been working on that have been driving inclusivity forward. It might be, you know, in the past or currently or what you've got planned, but yeah, just really love to hear a bit more.
Izzy: [00:06:49] Yes. So I think it all started, um, at a company called Creative Access so I think they’re a charity actually not a company, um, but Creative Access [00:07:00] aims to help ethnic minority candidates get into media. And they, um, place a lot of people in book publishing in, um, TV production, in radio as well. And they have one, they had a couple of placements at different magazines, but [00:07:16] they had one in particular at InStyle magazine, which has folded now, unfortunately. Um, but I was, you know, I'd been looking all over everywhere to try and get my first paid internship and InStyle was that one, although I got it in a roundabout way, um, you know, I happened to be in Creative Access, but [00:07:36] the job had already been hired, but the person had to leave. So then I was interning there and then they offered it to me. So it was, you know, a big, crazy way to get the job, but. Through Creative Access. Um, it was there that I really started to find my voice and to form my opinions and to understand about kind of [00:08:00] diversity and inclusivity specific theme related to race. [00:08:03] But it really sparked me thinking about everything and how intersectional everything needs to be in order to be inclusive. Um, they used to hold monthly panel talks and events and networking and just through meeting and hearing all of those amazing people, I really started to see that I have power in media, [00:08:25] I have privilege to be able to make a change. Um, I also have privilege by being, uh, you know, fair skinned, ambiguous ethnicity, someone who, for a lot of Black women, if they went in and probably said some of the things that I did that had been called ‘aggressive’, told to ‘watch their tone’ told to, you know, all that BS. [00:08:46] Um, but yeah, I had a privilege, I had power and I had a responsibility to make change. So InStyle, I started to, um, suggest things that we should write about and things that we should cover and feature. So I [00:09:00] was the digital and features assistant. I kind of flipped between those two roles. So. I would write for the website and I would pitch, ‘Hey, why don't we write about this influencer instead of this one?’ [00:09:11] Or why don't we talk about Diwali?’ ‘Why don't we do this?’ Um, so did some of that there, um, but getting to Hearst, I think three and a half, three and three quarter years ago now, um, really was a big change for me. Um, and it's been, I can't put it into words, kind of what it is done for the way that I've been able to make a difference. [00:09:43] Um, and again, I very much see it as my responsibility to do that. Um, so I remember when I joined, we had just had a new CEO he's called James Wildman. He likes to say ‘wild by name, wild by nature’. Um, but he is, he's [00:10:00] amazing. Um, He, and I'm not just saying that because he's my senior. He has time for you no matter who you are. [00:10:07] So you could be the editor in chief of one of our biggest magazines, or you could be the IT assistant. He has time to sit and listen to you and hear what you have to say. And I found that, um, very different to other CEOs that I've had. And I think it's really positive. You know, why the inside of our magazines, not as representative, you know, what, what can we do as a company and what are we doing as a company to make this change. Hearst then, set up our first steering group. [00:11:06] So as a steering group, we have been going for about two and a half years or something like that. Um, we review and have reviewed and continue to review all of our processes and kind of all of our systems to make sure that we are being inclusive and that, so everything from editorial to commercial to recruitment, to, um, you know, even having a say on like toilets and whether they were going to be gender neutral and all that kind of stuff. [00:11:35] So, we as a steering group, we work to make sure that we're driving that commitment to belonging. And also as a steering group, we do a lot of fun stuff as well. So we have hosted the company since two and a half years ago. You know, it was the very first cultural celebration that the company had ever hosted internally. [00:11:53] We did Chinese New Year, um, and now we've done panels for Pride. We marched in Pride last [00:12:00] year, which was a huge thing. Um, we have marked Black History Month, Eid, Diwali, Jewish New Year, you know, all of that kind of stuff we are celebrating and as well as bringing people together and it being fun because trust me the queues for the food are [00:12:18] ridiculous whenever we cater. Um, but also it helps you educate different people and just show them, ‘Hey, this is why Diwali is important’, or ‘this is why Pride is still a protest and not always a party’. We just had a drag evening over Zoom at home actually for Pride. So that was really fun. Um, so that was a long answer for Hearst, but also as well as that, um, Dionne Maxwell is our Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging lead. [00:12:44] She is incredible and she has taught me so much and working with her has been a privilege for me. Um, she set up our Hearst BAME network, which is the company's very first network. Um, as I said, we've now got more, which is great, but Hearst [00:13:00] BAME was the first, the OGs, um, and I now co-chair the BAME network and that aims to lift up BAME people in the company [00:13:09] um, to get them developing professionally. We've hosted like LinkedIn sessions on how to smash your profile. Um, but we also do fun stuff like we've got a book club coming up next month, then we've done a film screening of Michelle Obama's ‘Becoming’ documentary. Um, we've taken people to see early screenings of Crazy Rich Asians. [00:13:31] You know, everything we do is, is bringing that fun and that education together so that people are exposed to different cultures and the LGBTQ+ networking, they were doing the same, because it, inclusivity is not all about ethnicity and race, but you know, we have to do what we can do and I'm only one woman, everyone else, you know, is doing their part as well. [00:13:54] And then just more generally, in my team, every team I'm always in, I'm always working to [00:14:00] raise inclusivity as a topic. And my, um, Hearst Studio, my team I've noticed such a difference and I'm not saying that that's because of me, it's because of everything that's been happening, um, just in the way people speak and think about stock images and think about language and you know, it does it always have to be a white model. [00:14:21] Does it always have to be an able bodied model, all that kind of stuff. Um, so that's been amazing, you know, always happy to share my learnings and give advice to young, aspiring journalists as well. I just, I'm all about sharing is caring.
Rachel: [00:14:39] I love that. I want to work at Hearst now.
Izzy: [00:14:42] It’s so great.
Rachel: I want to even more now.
Izzy: And you’ll get free samosas.
Rachel: Awww don’t! That is music to my ears honestly.
[00:14:48] I think that's so important what you said, you know, about the steering group and how you’re going looking at the processes, because I think one of the issues that comes up time and time again, is, you know, an industry that isn't built to be [00:15:00] diverse. You know, it isn't built to be inclusive. So I think the fact that you're reviewing those processes and kind of, you know, smashing that down and saying, ‘no, we're reviewing them, [00:15:07] we're changing them’. I think that’s so important.
Izzy: It’s an industry-wide thing as well. Like it's in PR, it's in magazines, it's in TV. It's, it's in everything, you know, like me being able to intern free as much as I did is only because my grandparents live in this house in London, without that I don't know what I would have done. If I’d have had chronic fatigue syndrome or a disability, how would I have been able to cope with, you know, delivering samples all over London and fashion returns? [00:15:39] It's yeah, it's an industry wide problem. And it's something that everyone we all need to look at, but it's hard to know the solution sometimes, so we can all just kind of do the best we can and try.
Rachel: Yeah, no, I think that's so true. I think it's why it's so important like you said, to share those perspectives because it's one of those things, like, you don't know what you don’t know like, unless [00:16:00] you ask the questions, unless you expose yourself, you're not going to know [00:16:02] because I know that we've been to events sometimes, like, you know, fashion events, business events, and you know, there's loads of stairs and Laura can’t walk up loads of stairs and it's just something people don't think. And like you do think as well about other things. So like you said, it's so important to share and open your mind to it, isn't it. And then be active once you realise, so then that's an amazing point.
Izzy: Oh, absolutely.
Rachel: [00:16:22] Yeah, no, definitely. So the next question is another big question. Sorry. But it’s more broader. So, you know, what does inclusivity mean to you personally and what does an inclusive industry look like to you? Like., what are you working towards? What's that big picture?
Izzy: Yeah. [00:16:44] As we've kind of talked about already, inclusivity means that, there’s so many great, I don't have them like embedded in my brain, but there's so many great kind of explainers on Instagram that just kind of show that diversity, [00:17:00] inclusivity and belonging and not all the same thing. Um, you can be diverse, but it doesn't mean that you're inclusive. [00:17:06] Like you can have a seat at the table, but it doesn't mean anyone's listening to you. So inclusivity means that everyone, no matter what, you know, what makes themselves up because we're all made up of so many different things. Like I'm a woman. I am South Asian, I'm Indian, I'm mixed race, I'm from Birmingham. [00:17:25] So I say ‘last’ instead of ‘last’. Like, you know, we're all made up of all these different things. I have anxiety. That's another thing that affects me that doesn't affect someone else. I am straight. So someone else had, you know, we all have different things and it's important for us all to feel like all of that is accepted.
[00:17:45] Not, if you're like a serial killer I've been watching the fall so just [00:17:54]
Rachel: Same.
Izzy: The parts of you that you can't control. Um, and I [00:18:00] want to be cautious because I don't want to say something that comes across in the wrong way, but so call me out if you need to. But I think it, I think it is all those things that you can't control, um, or you shouldn't have to control being accepted. Um, and it's, [00:18:17] if you want to, if you want to use different pronouns, that should be absolutely fine. There should be no problem with that. If you are in a wheelchair, you should a hundred percent be able to do everything that someone who was not in a wheelchair should be able to do at your work and at your company. Um, but that, you know, that's internal. External, [00:18:37] it means that you should be represented. And again, all of those different sides of you should be represented. I think sometimes it's easy to get into a place where we show disabled people as heroes and superheroes and even I just said it earlier, you know, with the Paralympic advert. But they should just be, [00:19:00] be, they should just be. [00:19:01] And that's what I love, I think I mentioned, or, um, I'll say it again because I think she's amazing, but Paisley at Cosmopolitan. She does an amazing job of just all of her articles and features, the ones that she edits and commissions, if it's about how to know whether to break up with someone, it's not always a man and a woman, um, you know, it's about making [00:19:26] differences that we have incidental rather than a big deal in a dating feature. I keep using the example of a wheelchair, but you know, having someone who is in a wheelchair, just in a dating feature, having someone in a Hijab, just in a fitness feature, it's about, you know, all of these things just existing without them being like, ‘look, look, she's Indian’, ‘look, look she's like this.’ [00:19:50] Or ‘they're like that’. It's yeah, it's making it normal. Um, and I think just going back internally [00:20:00] again, or they kind of tie together. So the more representation we have, I really believe that you need to see it to feel that you can be it. So the more representation we have, the more people are going to be like, ‘Oh, maybe I could work there’ [00:20:12] The more people we're going to get moving up, because at the moment we've got a lot of great people in entry level jobs. Um, I think things are changing and that's one way we can see that, but, you know, we also have some amazing people in high power jobs. So in Hearst, you know, we have Effie who's our head of, um, or she might be like director of PR and communications. [00:20:31] So Surinder Simmons is our, um, head of people team across UK and Europe, but there's not enough. And we need people in the middle as well as at the kind of entry point and at the top as well.
Rachel: Yeah, no, definitely. I think like you said, it's like, moving away from that tokenism element. So I think it kind of still feels that we're at that point. [00:20:52] So it’s like you said, like flipping that on the head and saying, ‘no, it's normal’. Like you can turn over a magazine. It's not like a token kind of gesture. So I think that's [00:21:00] honestly such a good point. I think you hit the nail on the head there. Definitely.
So the final two questions. So we really wanted The Inclusive Viewpoint to be about action as well, which I know you're all about as well.
[00:21:11] So the first one we wanted to ask, from your opinion, what still needs to be done and can be done at an industry level to really create a fully inclusive fashion industry.
Izzy: Yes, again there's so much, um, and I'll always, I mean, I'm assuming, or I hope you've read ‘Why I'm no longer talking to white people about Race’, Reni Eddo-Lodge’s incredible book. [00:21:38] And when she was promoting it, um, and I think she says it in the book as well. The one thing that she always said was, I can't tell you exactly, exactly what to do, because I don't know your sphere of influence. I don't know who your friends are. I don't know who your family are. So I think it's important for everyone who [00:21:57] heads up companies and for everyone, [00:22:00] regardless every, I think everyone who manages the team, everyone in the team, everyone who has an influence it's up to them to think, right? What could I be doing in this particular role in this particular company to make a difference? So it's about, it's hard, but it's about understanding your own biases and we all have them. [00:22:23] I will always be towards making sure, um, there's a lot of ethnic representation after that. I'll go to sexuality and gender identity, but one thing I'm really working on is disability representation, because that's a point where I need to get better at. And it's understanding that we all have unconscious bias. [00:22:42] It's not, it's not a bad thing if you know it and check it. It's a bad thing when you let it go and don't ever challenge it, but it's not a shameful thing to say you've got unconscious bias, we all have it. So it's about kind of knowing your bias, knowing your, um, [00:23:00] and even just then I was going to say, knowing your blind spots, but that again is something that could be [00:23:06] take, not taken the wrong way. That's the wrong phrasing, but could be offensive to someone. So it's, it's also about listening. It's about listening when you don't have that experience and taking someone's opinion on board. So, you know, I’ve experienced microaggressions throughout my life, but those are different places. [00:23:25] I've experienced outright racism as well. But if I've said to someone, ‘hey, just by the way, did you know that this could, you know, make me feel like this or will make someone else feel like that.’ It's about listening and having that conversation. It's about not expecting everyone to come to you in terms of recruitment. If you’re saying, ‘Oh, we [00:23:47] only had, um, one non-white candidate apply for this job’. Why is that? Is it because you didn't search hard enough? Is it because your company website is all white? Is it because you've had [00:24:00] negative story? You know, it's all of those things. Um, and it is about hard work. It's, it's hard, it's hard to undo systems and processes that have been in place for years and years and years, nepotism that has been rife throughout the whole industry, whole of media, whole of fashion. [00:24:16] I'm sure it's the same in, you know, food and restaurant. I'm sure it's the same in everything, but it's about working harder and pushing yourself to research. Do you Google's as Dionne likes to say. Understanding what you can do and putting it into practice. And so I think the last thing I would say on that as well is it's about getting comfortable, being uncomfortable. [00:24:43] Again, if I ever do anything that is offensive, I would prefer someone to tell me and I need to swallow my pride and say, ‘okay, I apologize for that, I didn't know better, or I should have known better and I'm [00:25:00] sorry’. It is about getting comfortable being uncomfortable and yeah, you know, knowing it's a good thing that you're doing. [00:25:07] You can defend yourself to the hills if you want, but who wants to make someone feel bad? Who wants to make someone feel uncomfortable? And like they don't belong. I just. Don't know why anyone would want to do that.
Rachel: Yeah. So we were having a think about this the other day because you know, when you think about inclusivity, like the opposite is like, excluding somebody so why would you? [00:25:28] You know, when you think about it like that, why would you ever want to do that? Do you know what I mean?
Izzy: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's why some people feel hurt and they feel defensive because they don't know that they're excluding someone. And when someone does come to them and say, did you know that by doing this, you could be excluding people by this, um, it's, it hits your pride. [00:25:51] Like it hurts your pride and it hurts your feelings. If you feel like you're a good person, but it's just all about swallowing that pride. Like when you [00:26:00] have the opportunity to make someone's life a little bit better, or make them feel more included. Why wouldn't you.
Rachel: Yeah, no, I think that's summed it up perfectly, definitely.
[00:26:08] I think the final question we wanted to ask you probably touched on it then. But I really liked what you said about, you know, fashion and media and how like it has such influence and I do feel like with fashion as well, like people wear clothes every day and like, I mean, it has such power to create a positive change. So we wanted to ask you, you know, at an individual level, you know, at a consumer level, what can people be doing day to day to really create, [00:26:34] you know, that includes, the industry that they want to see.
Izzy: So I think, um, we have seen it quite a lot coming out on social media and we all have opinions on social media sometimes does as much harm as it does good. Um, and there's also kind of a question of like performative activism, but again, I kind of see [00:26:55] means to an end, let's get great businesses out there. So the first [00:27:00] Saturday of every month for the rest of the year, I believe is Black Pound Day. Um, and that is a campaign to encourage people to shop Black owned businesses. Um, I will send you links after this of great Black owned businesses and, um, kind of directories of Black owned businesses, um, that you could post alongside this. [00:27:21] This would be amazing.
Rachel & Laura: Of course!
Izzy: Yeah. It's all about, again, going back to knowing what your sphere of influence is. So like you said, we all buy clothes. We could all look to shop more sustainably by only shopping second hand. Um, that is something I'm trying to do a lot more, but when you know that again, that's not inclusive for everyone because for a lot of people who are of certain sizes, they can't shop clothes in those in charity shops because it's unlikely they're going to get something that's great for them [00:27:52] and they deserve to feel great as well. So, um, if you buy, like for me, for example, greetings cards, I've [00:28:00] made a real effort to buy from a Black owned company that I will send to you after this as well. Um, when it comes to toiletries as well, like I've been trying to look for Black owned places or BAME owned or LGBTQ+ owned, you know, just shops and companies that are more independent and owned by people who could deserve, [00:28:21] do they deserve, yeah. They deserve my support more than like Superdrug for example. Bookshops as well. I'm trying to make sure that I'm shopping books, not on Amazon anymore. I have stopped Amazon, but I try and shop independently from Black owned businesses. Um, you know, it's, I think show your activism with your wallet and we are all one person, right? [00:28:46] So I can't, I can try, but I can't support all trans businesses or LGBTQ+, and then everything else businesses or ethnic minority owned businesses. I can't do that. But if every one of us just [00:29:00] stopped and we're a little bit more conscious, we could all play a big part in that. And then I think, um, the other thing that we can all do to create a fully inclusive [00:29:10] industry is know what we can do. Raise it. Use our privilege and use our voice always where it's safe, call out racism, homophobia, bi-phobia, whatever, Islamophobia, whatever it might be, don't stand for it. So if you feel, and I do have to flag, you know be safe, I feel safe in a company. And it doesn't have to be there. [00:29:36] And then, so if someone says something in a meeting, I could always follow up with them in an email and just explain why something they said could have been hurtful, um, but stand up because it's tiring as an ethnic minority. And I'm sure as a disabled person, a gay person, whatever it might be. It's tiring to always have to be the one to stand up for yourself. [00:29:56] And to know that you've got people who would do it for you, because I [00:30:00] do believe that we all hopefully know right from wrong. Maybe not some of us, but hopefully. Well, I do believe that, you know, we all have the power to say something and make a change and it means a lot when someone stands up for you, it means a lot when someone says, ‘hey, that's not okay’. [00:30:19] Um, I don't need that. This person who's already gone through that trauma to re-go through it again, to bring it up or raise it. Um, but yeah. So, those are kind of the two main things that I really try and do. And the, I would love other people to do is yeah, shop, shop, shop with your activism in mind, um, and just call it out, [00:30:42] don't stand for it, don't let it continue anymore.
Rachel: No. They're absolutely amazing. I think that's a theme that's come out with these interviews so far is that each and every one of us is an activist. It doesn't matter, you know, if you have one follower, if you tell you mum, anybody, like that has a massive influence And like you said, [00:30:59] like shopping, [00:31:00] if we all did that, that would make a huge difference like following and liking on social media, like we all have a massive power together. So I think that's such an important message, isn't it?
So, yeah, that was all our questions, Izzy. We just wanted to say a massive thank you and just speaking to us just gives us so much hope, so much excitement and so much inspiration about the future of like fashion media and, you know, you leading the way for a fully inclusive industry. So just wanted to say a massive thank you and hopefully we can meet up in person.
No, definitely.
Thanks so much Izzy.
Izzy: Thank you so much.