Viewpoint 06: Khadija Gbla
We were so excited to be joined by the absolute powerhouse Khadija Gbla.
“I realised there were differences in our society and the way people were treated, whether it was based on race or gender, sexuality, ability, you know, any point of difference, essentially. And that bothered me.”
—About Khadija
Khadija is a human rights activist and is one of those people you cannot help but feel completely inspired and empowered by. Khadija is also an entrepreneur, speaker, facilitator, philanthropist and mentor, as the Director of Khadija Gbla Cultural Consultancy & non-for-profit Desert Flower Centre Australia which supports FGM Survivors and ambassador for Our Watch and SisterWorks. Follow Khadija and her incredible activism here.
“I sort of thought, you know what, I'm going to say something I'm going to speak up.”
— Examples of inclusivity we can learn from
“It sent a message. Brown girls matter, Black girls matter. All colours, the whole full range of diversity of pigments.”
— Khadija’s Actions to create a more inclusive industry
Starting her start Cross-cultural consultancy, training organisations and businesses in how to engage with diversity
Her non-for-profit work “My passion is gender equality, but particularly how we end violence against women and girls”
“If you're having an event. Do you think of somebody in a wheelchair? Do you think of your writing? Is it in simple English? So everyone can read and understand it. Do you have interpreters available whether for the deaf community or people with English, it's a second language is your language gendered, is it?”
— What can we do to help stop FGM?
Khadija shared with us actions we can all take to stop the violence against women and girls that is FGM, which heartbreakingly affects 200 millions girls globally.
1. Watch and share Khadija’s incredible Ted Talk
2. Talk to your family and friends about FGM to raise awareness
3. Support amazing organisations fighting to end FGM including @thefivefoundation and Daughters of Eve in the UK.
“Every 10 seconds a girl is mutilated somewhere in the world, in the UK, in Australia…I want all of us collectively to say, ‘If I see a child is at risk. If I think a child may be in danger, I have an obligation to fight for them and to do my part’.”
— Actions the INDUSTRY can take to make the fashion industry more inclusive
For the industry to acknowledge they cannot make a product for just one type of person
Standardising sizing across the industry
Representing different abilities
Change the ‘nude’ colours on offer and offer inclusive ‘nude’ colours
Representation of older people in campaigns
Representation of different ethnicities and races
Diverse and inclusive representation behind the scenes
“Actually seeing the value in the work that people of colour, people who are diverse of diverse abilities have in hiring us behind the scenes, not just at the front.”
— Actions WE can take as individuals we can take to make the fashion industry more inclusive
Challenging and questioning brands on social media e.g. via DMs or comment section
For every consumer to realise the power in their money then make choices that are right
Research brands and how they are spending your money e.g. are they paying people fairly? Do they support causes you are passionate about?
Support local communities, support marginalised communities, support Black owned businesses, support women owned businesses- invest in these.
“As consumers, our cash — that's the power.”
—Transcript
[00:00:00] Laura: Hi everyone. Hope you're all having a great day and thank you so much for joining us on The Inclusive Viewpoint. Our Viewpoint today is with the incredibly inspirational powerhouse that is because Khadija Gbla. Khadija is a human rights activist, entrepreneur, speaker, facilitator, philanthropist and mentor.
[00:00:22] She's one of those people who you can't help but be inspired by and she has such an ability to empower others, to create the change that is so needed by leading by example with her phenomenal work.
Hi Khadija. How are you?
Khadija: Hi beautiful ladies. Hello from all the way from Australia - Adelaide.
[00:00:45] Rachel: Oh wow, that’s amazing! Aw, we were just saying how much like we love Adelaide because I think we're ready to retire, so we might be joining you very soon!
[00:00:57] Khadija: Well we have beautiful wines and a lot of parks and we go to bed at 8pm.
[00:01:04] [00:01:00] Rachel: Perfect! You’ve got us sold! When we can next get there, we’ll be there! That's brilliant!
Laura: Thank you so much for joining us today, but before we get started, it'd be great to hear more about you in your own words.
Khadija: Oh, hi ladies. Um, well, you know, it's interesting. I have, I feel like being a feminist, a leader, an activist for most of my life. I think, you know, I was born in Sierra Leone in the West of Africa, the British colonized us [00:01:33], let’s just sneak that in there, and my family came to Australia as refugees in 2001. So I have called Australia home for 19 years. Um, and from a young age, I sort of realised there were differences in our society and the way people were treated, whether it was based on race or gender, sexuality, ability, you know, any point of difference, essentially.
[00:01:54] And that bothered me. So I sort of thought, you know what, I'm going to say something I'm going to speak up. So I [00:02:00] went into activism very early. I just wanted to have my say. So I was a little angry Black girl who always had all this sass - ‘No, no, no, no. We're not doing that today. Not today, sir. Nope. [00:02:12] Not going to happen’. Very annoying to be around. You know, whether it's questioning my mom around the kitchen table, you know, ‘why did I have to cook? Why can't the male cousins cook? They have two hands as well. Why did I need to be quiet?’ Why is it that when a girl is, you know, intelligent and confident, she's bossy, Oh, it's frowned upon. [00:02:33] Sorry sir, I did not go to get a double degree to sound dumb. It makes no sense to me. Why would I do that? Why would I have a degree to sound dumb? But also it's not my place to minimize myself so I can be attractive to a man. Like I didn’t understand, all these gender stereotypes and ways that as a girl, I was treated and I just thought, no, I'm going to fight the fight.
[00:02:53] You know, change comes from all of us, you know, and we all have the ability to be changemakers in our families, in our communities. [00:03:00] And so I took on that challenge. I went on to create different work. Um, and one of the works I'm really proud of is my work to end Female Genital Mutilation, which happens in the UK as well, where girls are been mutilated or taken overseas for the purpose of, you know, FGM and all over the world [00:03:17] 200 million women and girls have been cut because they’re girls. Because somebody thought it was necessarily for little girls to be subjected to this form of child abuse, because a woman should not own their pleasure, their bodies. We shouldn't feel good. We shouldn't be empowered. I mean, how horrible is that, that we live in a world where girls are treated and women are treated this way.
[00:03:39] So I went on to create my own organisation to fight this fight and I think I'll be fighting as well for the rest of my life, but I believe in it. And I believe in a world where everyone should be treated with equality. Everyone should have the opportunity to thrive and be their best authentic self every day.
[00:03:56] I mean, anything stands in the way of that, we need to smash it into [00:04:00] pieces.
[00:04:03] Rachel: Definitely! I could not have summed that up better, we need to smash it definitely! I think that’s so true what you said because obviously different experience but Laura and I went to an all girls school. Um, and it's so weird, like you said, that environment because it was such an environment of like it was girls all together and you know, you thought you could do anything. Like there wasn't really any like gender stereotypes, like you said, when I went to university and then I started, you know, obviously [00:04:27] you kind of had that gender mix. It's weird how you can see the stereotypes that exist everywhere isn’t it so I think that's so true. And like you said, every girl has the right to grow up and dream. So I think that's incredible what you're doing.
So for our first question and I really loved reading about on your website, where you talk about what your vision is. [00:04:46] And I know you said that, you know, you see a world that's free from injustice, full of acceptance for every single person. So, you know, regardless of the nationality, culture, ethnic background, um, and with The Inclusive Viewpoint, didn’t we, we really wanted [00:05:00] to share examples that we can all learn from.
[00:05:03] And, you know, that's really putting inclusivity at the heart, and particularly, you know, to apply to the fashion industry. So I wanted to ask you, I guess, from your experiences, is there any maybe like fellow activists or brands or charities or, you know, anyone or anything, um, that have really shown examples of, you know, driving inclusivity forward?
[00:05:24] Khadija: I have couple of examples. The other day I actually was doing some work with the Estee Lauder company. And I was saying to them how as a little girl, you know, I remember when I wanted to get foundation for the first time, I wanted to make up a study to try and find make up. Um, I went to the drug store and I couldn't find anything. [00:05:43] Everything was beige like beige, literally. That was the only color - beige. To this day in 2020, in little old Adelaide,across Australia to find colors is still a struggle. I couldn't go to the supermarket and just get my color like most of the white girls in school, I couldn't go to the pharmacy and do the same. [00:06:00] Um, and even when I went to the, you know, big shopping malls, you still couldn't do that. [00:06:06] You had to go Mac. Mac was the only company that will create colors that were inclusive enough for little black Khadija to have a foundation. Isn't that sad. At Mac also of course it's not cheap. So while white girls could get a $15 bottle of foundation, I will have had to pay the 40, 50 bucks to get my Mac. I mean, good for Mac that we have inclusion, but it still costs me a lot more than it will [00:06:32] cost somebody to get a beige colour from the supermarket. So I grew up with that, that lack of representation in something as simple as that, or wanting to get bandaid that was in my color. It seems like a little thing, but you want bandaid that's your color. My son is five and he wants brown bandaid. If he cuts himself, [00:06:51] he goes, ‘mom, I want the brown one’. He doesn't want the beige one. He wants the brown one that looks like him. Because those things actually do matter. [00:07:00] Representation in fashion, in beauty actually does matter. So when I found my first, you know, Mac colour, you know, it was like, okay, I felt beautiful. I felt great because I found something that worked for my skin tone, that wasn't ashy [00:07:14] that didn’t make me look like I was a ghost from somewhere. It actually was my skin tone. So I want to give a shout out to Mac because Mac, I think over the years have been consistent in being inclusive and diverse before it became a buzzword, before inclusion and diversity became a buzzword and a gimmick for people to make money.
[00:07:33] They always believed in inclusion. And even now as in 2020, we're talking about Fenty. Fenty has done a great work. Rihanna has done a good work but Mac laid the foundation. We must not forget those who laid the foundation. So for Fenty to walk, Mac had to exist in the first place for us to be in a world where we now celebrate Fenty, all that is doing for, for diversity, from albino [00:08:00] to the darkest darkest shade, you know what I mean?
[00:08:02] That's beautiful to have that, that spectrum, but once again, If it's not Mac or Fenty - what other range is there? For example. So I know Maybelline and Revlon in their American stores have Black ranges and colours for me. You know, in Australia, Revlon and Maybelline don’t stock the Black ranges.
[00:08:25] I have to order it online. So in Australia we can’t get access to the Black ranges of Revlon and Maybelline. They only stock the beige range, even though globally, they do have the colors because I can order them online. I can order them online on eBay or from America, then pay huge shipping costs for it to come to Australia [00:08:44] for me to get the dark ranges when those companies in Australia could just stock the full range. I can't get over that so Mac, Fenty, we're still limited in what we can get and still shouldn't [00:09:00] be, we should have more options like everyone else, we should have the cheaper range, the expensive range, based on your budget.
[00:09:07] We know girls, everyone has a budget, so it's not fair that we have to pay the huge cost, but we can't have the cheap end if that's what you wanted, we should have accessibility. So things like that annoy me, but I have to say kudos to Mac, not only in racial inclusive inclusivity, but also in the LGBTIQ+ allyship, we have seen over the years, the different partnerships they have had and their donation and their passion for the HIV and AIDS cause as well.
[00:09:34] So you see this and it's quiet. It's not noisy inclusivity. It's not, ‘Oh, let's shout it. Oh my God’, this is actually our value and we just live in it. So I find that actually quite attractive because I think in 2020, we have so many brands jumping on the bandwagon of these titles, but it's all for the cash and the coins. [00:09:57] Not actually a little value. It's not one that [00:10:00] probably wouldn't even be sustainable beyond a year. We will see them go back to their defaults. But to see a company that has consistently a brand being in this space, done it. I like them. I have to say, I really, really liked them. They stand out to me and of course, kudos to our sister, Rihanna - ‘ella, ‘ella, ‘ella. All about that life.
[00:10:24] I think it was the launch. It was a beautiful launch. It made a huge splash and it sent a message. Brown girls matter, Black girls matter. All colors, you know, the whole full range of diversity of pigments from albinos who have been left out. I mean, did anybody from cater for that lightness of color to the blacker shade, you know, and the way it was done, not tokenistic, it was sending a message [00:10:47] there was a gap in the market for Fenty and Fenty filled it in and with the lingerie, once again, we saw a pregnant woman, um, at their fashion show. Have you ever seen a pregnant woman in the fashion in the lingerie? [00:11:00] How gorgeous was that? We saw women with different abilities. You know how representation is that for the little girl who walks in crutches, for the little girl who may be in a wheelchair for somebody who has different skin conditions, perhaps to see that diversity and you can be pregnant and be sexy and want some action as well for Christ sake. 00:11:23] You know what that means? Just because you’re carrying a human doesn't mean you're not all about that extra, you know, extra life I’m just saying. It was like a celebration of diversity and it wasn't tokenistic with one of each kind, just for the sake of it. It was just a well rounded message of women in all shapes and sizes should matter. We should be represented, people of all diversity, of ability should be represented. [00:11:50] Women of all races. It was just a celebration of that diversity and how beautiful it is. But I think for the rest of us watching you was to see ourselves represented for the [00:12:00] first time, maybe in a way that we haven't felt before. So, um, I think, you know, those two stand out for me. I see other brands, you know, trying, but to be honest with you, I'm not quick yet to jump on the bandwagon of giving them praise and clapping for them until they have earned it, because I think that's putting one line of product out [00:12:19] or just putting a few posts on Instagram, doesn't really cut it. It has to be lived. It has to be real. It has to be that you genuinely care. And we saw, you know, with Black Lives Matter, we quickly saw those who would be Timeout Tuesday, you know, the black outs, the next day, they went back to posting beige people. [00:12:38] Then next day, they went back to their defaults. The next day they went back for the cash. You know what I mean? So, you know, it's too quick to give, you know, kudos, but I think we should be mindful that we wait for people to earn that, to earn that from us, because we actually matter, this is not just about money. [00:12:56] It's actually about community and representation and [00:13:00] value. Diversity in all its forms because we have little ones who are coming up and they deserve to see themselves. And this is not just the mama in me. I want my son to see himself. You'll get, we said that maybe he wants to wear makeup. Do we have makeup for boys? [00:13:13] It's normal. You have people. You want to cover it up, but you know, a quick concealer, you know, it's not even gendered anymore beauty and fashion it's fluid. And we want to see that, we want our kids to be able to see themselves. You know, my son would see somebody on TV or magazine and if they have kinky hair and they're Brown, [00:13:31] he go, ‘mommy, they look like me! They look like me!’ And if it’s somebody who looks similar to me, ‘mommy, that woman looks like you. Is she my mommy too?’ ‘No, she's not your mommy. [00:13:45] She's not your mommy. I’m your mommy’. But even at five, he is aware of his, of what, who represents him and who, what his identity is. So I want that for him to feel represented and to feel celebrated, not just represented [00:14:00] but represented in a positive light that says you matter, you're important. So that's my list.
Rachel: That's a brilliant example, thanks Khadija. Because I think it's so important because I feel like for me growing up fashion, like you said, and beauty, like, it was very much, you know, women looked a certain way and like celebrated, you know, a certain look. [00:14:19] I feel like you said, like now it's about consistency. Like you can't help but think why weren't you doing this 10 years ago? Like, there's no reason why do you know what I mean, like it's easiest thing, well, it's not the easiest, but it's a lot easier to do it when everybody else is praising you for, but to seek out when, you know, it's not the trendy thing. [00:14:36] Like you said, like Mac were doing and you know, other people have done. I think we need to get to a point where it's just you, it's not, you know, a token it's, it's just consistent. So I think that's a really, really good point. And also just thinking as well, because we read the other day didn’t we about people who have a disability, they’ve got like an extra cost of, was it £500 a month? [00:14:57] You know because of the pay gap and all the extra stuff [00:15:00] they have to buy it. So it's just thinking then when you talked about, you know, um, non-white skin, if they’re like there or have those extra costs, that's again, contributing to economic inequality and all that. And you just think how can that exist in 2020?
[00:15:13] Khadija: It does. It is discrimination with full curvier women pay more and they're styles offered are never ‘trendy’. They’re given a different version. Every season that we go, ‘Oh, what's in style?’ But if you look at the curvier options, you're like why we're not getting the same style. Yeah, we don't want to look frumpy. [00:15:35] We don't want to dress like grandma. Why is the materials not good enough. They get charged extra. Just like your razorblade at the supermarket if you buy the male version its cheaper and if you buy the pink one's more expensive. Do you know that? Have you ever compared the price? Deodorant, male deodorant better, stronger, cheaper. Female deodorant, not as strong, more expensive.
[00:15:57] The pink tax it's called [00:16:00] - the pink tax. I have stopped buying the pink. I buy the male version of t-shirts. I buy the male version of deodorant and get some blue because we're being taxed. That's gender discrimination.
Rachel: Yeah. Because we have had that over here didn't we, that, you know, um, with period pads, with the having to pay for those, like, why aren't they free? [00:16:18] I don't know if you have that in Australia, we have the, you know, the Free Periods campaign and it's so true why should we have to pay for these essentials and pay more? So I think that's an action we can all do - don’t buy pink, go for that one and drive it. That’s brilliant Khadija, thank you so so much. Um, so the next question, so we wanted to [00:16:37] like dig a bit more into the incredible work that you are doing. Because I know you said as well. I think this is like my favorite quote I've ever read, because I know you said a lot of your work was that you want every little girl to have the right to become the woman that she wants to be. And I just thought that beautifully sums up, you know, what we all should be doing.
[00:16:54] And so it would be great to hear more from you about what you have been doing currently doing, or any plans that [00:17:00] you've got that’s, you know, really driving inclusivity forward.
Khadija: Um, I think for me, inclusivity, diversity has such a, um, a lived experience. I mean, I am, I have, I am inclusive in that I have multiple identities. [00:17:16] I'm a Black person. I am a woman. I am a mom. So I have all these intricate identities. So then the way I go to the world is requiring diversity and inclusion for me to feel safe, for me to feel included and represented. So in my line of work, I have also then thought, how do I bring that in to what I do? So the first thing I did a couple of years ago was start my cross cultural consultancy.
[00:17:38] So mama was like, ‘let's get us that coins and be boss babe’. Mmm. and I thought because you know what is good for somebody is one thing and working for yourself is completely boss move. Okay. It is harder than it looks or like nine to five - respect for that. Entrepreneurship. It's 24 hours a day. It's no time out. It's no [00:18:00] break, but it means that I can do work that is aligned with my values and I'm very values based. [00:18:05] Inclusion and diversity for me and representation are a value I have. So I created a consultancy that literally train organisations and businesses in how to engage with diversity, whether it's gender, whether it's racial diversity, but inclusion to our projects, our work, when we engage with different diverse communities, accessibility for, you know, if you're having an organisation, you have an event [00:18:29] Do you think of somebody in a wheelchair? Do you think of your writing? Is it in simple English? So everyone can read and understand it. Do you have interpreters available whether for the deaf community or people with English, it's a second language is your language gendered, is it? The default is male rather than gender fluid.
[00:18:47] We know people, gender is so diverse and as it should be, it's looking at that. That is literally my line of work from a business perspective, how do I work with organizations and businesses and a whole [00:19:00] range of chort of our community alone. Cultural diversity, gender diversity to inclusion becomes embedded in every one of our lives.
[00:19:08] It's not a separate box. It's not once a year we celebrate it, not when the camera’s are on, but every single day as we go about our work, we’re inclusive and celebratary and respectful of the diversity of the community around us. So that's my business and I'm proud of it, but of course, what makes my heart sing and what gets mama going every day is my non-for-profit work. [00:19:33] And like I said before, my passion is gender equality, but particularly how we end violence against women and girls, whether that is domestic and family violence, where I work in that space in ensuring that women of color, for example, who go through racism and sexism and when they go through domestic and family violence, for example, here in Australia, they face many challenges from their community who may ostracize them and, and not support them [00:20:00] in their fight. [00:20:01] They are in Australia, by themselves without family and support, women on visas for example, who are threatened to be sent back home to places where they might get killed, places where they might get raped and the challenges of that. But also when they do access services, services here, they face racism they get told, well, ‘aren’t just all black men violent’, for example, how does that help? [00:20:24] Oh yes. Oh yeah. People have said that a police officer actually said that to me in my experience. When I went to report my ex partner who had assaulted me, they said ‘aren’t all black men just violent’. I go, actually no, but you wouldn't say that to a white woman. I bet you a thousand dollars. You would not say that to a white woman. [00:20:43] You will not. So what does that have to do with this conversation? You're racially profiling me already - how do I feel safe to then tell you what's happened to me and depend on the system to protect me when you're racist. So we see these challenges. So my passion is working with our communities and our service providers in [00:21:00] providing safety and culturally appropriate responses. [00:21:05] Going through violence. It’s a horrible experience whether it's physical, emotional abuse, whether it's spiritual, your religion being used against you, whether it’s financial abuse having to show receipts, for even buying a tampon, having to show receipts for even going to a dinner date with your girlfriends to prove you were where you were having your phones tapped. [00:21:25] Having somebody stalk you online, having little secret cameras put on your baby's back, bag so that you can be stopped. Oh, it gets worse. We see this emotional, financial, sexual, you know, cultural forms of abuse, technological forms of abuse. In 2020 with technology available, everything has been amplified. Abuse has been amplified. [00:21:50] We are more connected than we have been. We're also more vulnerable than we have ever been because people can easily have access to us. So I work around that and it breaks my [00:22:00] heart to live in a world where a woman going through violence is scared to reach out, because she'll be judged, she'll be asked, ‘what were you wearing?’ [00:22:07] What does that have to do with anything? So it's a short skirts fault, not the person who made the choice to attack somebody, because even if you were in Burka, you can still get raped. We have nuns who get raped. What does a woman wear have to do with anything? Oh, you know, being online and having dick pics sent to you without consent. [00:22:28] I don't want to see your ‘urgh’. [00:22:37] Yeah, nobody wants that picture. But we still have that bombardment of pictures nobody wants, of that entitlement of harassing somebody consistently messaging them, stalking them online. So, you know, just the discrimination and the harassment of women and girls go through and [00:23:00] wanting to ensure that, you know, I play my part where I serve as an ambassador, as a survivor advocating in raising awareness and working with young girls in empowering them to speak up for themselves to be strong and to be assertive, to be sassy, ‘not today motherfucker’. [00:23:15] Not today. Sorry. No thank you, bye! You know, we want to raise our girls that way. Then we want to raise our boys to not be entitled to not think they deserve attention, or I bought you dinner so you're owed sex - doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. Well, you smile at me so I thought you liked me. I smile at everyone. [00:23:37] Everyone. Doesn't mean anything. Thank you very much. [00:23:43] It's things like that. Raising our sons to not be entitled, raising them to understand consent. You don't go around feeling like you can touch people or treat them anyway and anyhow, without consequences. Raising our daughters to be assertive, to know their power, to know, to have body [00:24:00] autonomy, because you know what [00:24:02] girls deserve that, we deserve to live in a world free of violence. We deserve to live in a world free of harassment. We deserve to live in a world where we don't have to constantly question ourselves because society says we have to. So that's one of my areas of work. And of course the other one, as you would know, to looking me up is FGM, which is such a brutal [00:24:22] form of child abuse and most people might go, well, what's this FGM? So FGM stands for Female Genital Mutilation is when the female genitalia of little girls are cut off to be more blunt is when the clitoris of little girls is cut off in the name of cleanliness and in the name of keeping them pure and in the name of making sure they don't have sex with everyone else [00:24:45] and they can be manageable. That is it. Can you imagine that if we went around and caught off the penises of little boys, so they will be clean and pure? The world will have stopped by now, the world would have stopped by [00:25:00] now. But we do that to little girls, 200 million little girls have gone through that. [00:25:06] And according to UNICEF with regards to Covid we know another couple of more millions will be cut due to the restrictions and not having access to protection and support. That's - we live in a world like that. We live in a world where a newborn baby who is innocent and cute, and just wants to eat and drink breast milk and go to sleep. [00:25:29] Somebody would decide that their genitals actually need to be cut off. That is what FGM is and it happens every 10 seconds. So I don't know how long we have been in the, on this call. Every 10 seconds a girl is mutilated somewhere in the world, in the UK, in Australia.
Rachel: I know because I watched your Ted talk as well Khadija. Not that I’m stalking you but [00:25:55] I'll be sure to share it as well, but when you said that it happens all over [00:26:00] the world. And I know you talked about, um, you know, a four year old girl on your Ted talk and then another set of parents and just the fact that it's happening. Like it even happens to one girl it's just absolutely, you know, heartbreaking, I just can't even comprehend it. [00:26:14] So thank you for all the incredible work you are doing. And, um, I was going to ask you at the end, but I think I'll ask you now, but I want to ask like, what can we do and people listening like, do to, you know, support your work and stop FGM? Because I think that's the most important question we can ask.
[00:26:30] Khadija: Yeah, I think first it's acknowledging that FGM is a form of human rights abuse. And when it comes to child abuse of any kind, we, as adults need to take ownership of the child abuse, little kids can't protect themselves. They can't speak up for themselves that four year old girl could not speak for herself. [00:26:48] A newborn baby can't fight for herself. So I want all of us collectively to say, ‘Hey, if I see a child is at risk. If I think a child may be in danger, I have an obligation to fight for them and to do my part’. [00:27:00] I think that's the first step. The second step with FGM, I think is that my Ted talk - instead of watch it, share it because I think what is hard is that we need to hear more from survivors. [00:27:10] We need to go straight to people who have lived experience because it's power in that you are amplifying my voice. You're also amplifying my message so share it far and wide. I think that is such a simple thing to do for those who live in the UK. You have amazing organisations that work on FGM - Daughters of Eve [00:27:28] is a particular one. You have Nimco Ali who lives in the UK. You guys have great organisations. So I would say quickly look up FGM in the UK, you will have four or five options of organisations that will come up that you can support. And definitely, I would say reach out. Fund ways for them share about FGM on your social media is, you know, I have a lot of posts on my social media [00:27:50] you can just easily repost, share the Ted talk and start conversations in your family because you see my key message about my life all the time saying we are all changemakers. [00:28:00] So when at the age of 13 I looked my mom in the eye and said, this stops with me. I meant it. Wow. This is the woman who put a roof over my head and fed me. It was a very dangerous conversation to have. [00:28:11] Because she fed me, you know what I'm saying? But I still [00:28:18] stand far away from the reach of her hand. This stops with me. It ends with me because even at that age, I knew the power of my voice. I knew the power of taking a stand. So we can all take a stand against all forms of injustices by speaking up and calling it out. So have a conversation with your family about FGM. ‘Hey, do you know that this happens to little girls because they're girls?’ Do you know [00:28:42] this is a gender based violence that somebody decides that girls shouldn’t have pleasure. The clitoris is dirty. That girls should not have control over their body. Let's talk about that as part of a modern society, we're still telling girls what to wear. We're still ‘slut’ shaming girls. We [00:29:00] still have the gender pay gap. [00:29:01] This is all actually part of one conversation and it's all one conversation. So I said, if you can do that, follow me, share my work by all means. And at the moment I have just started a foundation called the Desert Flower Foundation and Center in Adelaide. It's good to offer treatment and trauma counseling and support for the 200,000 women and girls who have been cut in Australia. [00:29:27] This is my baby, it's my heart, because all I want is to give back a little power and give a little dignity back to the women who have gone through this. For my sisters and I stand in solidarity with them, because I think everyone deserves to live your life, where they have dignity and that feel empowered. So our power was taken away from us at a young age when we couldn't fight back. [00:29:54] But now as an adult, I can provide support and I can be, um, I can [00:30:00] make sure that there are no more little khadija’s, so you can join me in that.
Rachel: Amazing. We'll make sure to share all that because I think that’s incredible because I think that's a really good point. I think we saw with the Black Lives Matter movement, didn't we as well, there was this kind of attitude that like, ‘Oh, I'm not racist’, [00:30:16] or, you know, ‘I'm not involved with, you know, FGM’ or ‘I'm not, you know, sexist’ so like people think, ‘Oh, I don't have to do anything’, but it's the fact like, no, you actually have to be, if you are actually, you know, not racist, not sexist, etc, you need to act on that and, you know, encourage others not to be as well.
[00:30:32] I think that's a really good message Khadija, so thank you so much for that. Um, I guess carrying on the conversation towards action. So the final two questions we've talked about, you know, incredible examples of your work, and we really wanted to focus on, you know, what can we all do? So the first question was, well, I guess, as an activist yourself, what do you think, you know, the fashion industry can be doing to create a more inclusive industry? [00:30:58] Um, so would be great to hear [00:31:00] what you think.
Khadija: Yeah, I think to be honest with you, it's, it's not even hard what needs to be done. The industry acknowledge that, you know, they can’t make product for just one type of people. We have defaults. So our default is we have male is in default. We have race. So whiteness is a default. Ability. [00:31:20] So straight people and people who are not disabled at the default, we have to challenge that every step of the way. The fashion industry needs to be inclusive of all body types, all people. So we see this differentiation of standard size and plus size. Why do we have that? What what's, what do you mean what's plus-sized? Isn’t it just a size? Like in that already [00:31:43] you are creating a separation. You are saying you are not normal. That's what you actually say. This is the normal here, but actually no no no, all sizes are normal. Women come in all shapes and sizes so they are normal because they are - that's where we come in so I would love to [00:32:00] see more inclusive language with label clothes and it's standardized sizing. [00:32:06] Have you gone to one shop and you’re a skinny bitch and you go to another shop and you think you're [00:32:15] an oompa loompa [00:32:22]
Rachel: Vanity sizing isn’t it that.
Khadija: Have I lost weight. I don't think I've lost weight. [00:32:29] I may walk in another shop. Nothing changed, the same body went from that shop to that shop. Yeah, we don't have standardised sizing so everybody gets to choose how they play with their sizes. And it's fucked, it's actually gaslighting. You're gaslighting us you’re gaslighting us. You’re making us question our reality, our bodies haven't changed. It's the sizing that has changed that size six in one shop is a size 10 in another shop. [00:32:53] It's messed up and I think it contributes to body image [00:33:00] issues for younger girls and adults. It definitely does. I would love to see more standardized sizing across the board. It shouldn’t matter which store we go to, we should know what to expect. We should know that, you know, the sizes should not change. [00:33:14] My body can change, but let this sizing stay the same. So then I'm able to have a reasonable expectation of what I'm going to wear. Don't get me started on size inclusivity. Some stores still stop at extra large. Okay. We're just going to stop at 12. Really just 12. That's an abstract number. What about 14? 16? [00:33:38] Okay. What if I have big arse, you know. We're not seeing inclusivity. So you have only certain brands who have a full range. You have certain brands who have not. So, which to me, like I said, when for curvier girl with ample generous, you know, bits and lumps and humps going on, we just don’t get the trendy fashion,[00:34:00] we can’t get the what's in the now the, its the frumpy clothing that we still get. [00:34:04] I think that's unacceptable so I think standardised sizing. My side, definitely diversity and inclusion of all sizes. The more broader range of sizing I think will be great. Um, it will be great to see different abilities. People with disabilities. I don’t know about you but I hardly see it, I hardly see people with disabilities in the fashion world. Why is that? We live in a world where how many people one in so many has a disability. [00:34:30] Don't disabled people wear clothes? Don't they like fashion? Don’t they wear makeup? So where are they in this? Where are they, why are they not represented? And that is a deliberate action. So people are choosing. Brands choose to exclude. It's actually not accidental to exclude somebody. You have to actually choose to exclude them - it’s not accidental. [00:34:53] Like when I don't want to talk to somebody it's not accidental, I'm not picking up the call. I see the call and I’m not talking to you. [00:35:05] [00:35:00] Making clothes - I ain’t making them for you. [00:35:13] That’s the truth. It’s not accidental. I would love to see that and of course was one of my favorite things- I would love to have colors, be redefined - the nude fiasco. What is nude? [00:35:25] It's still beige. Yeah, when I wear nude I'm a ghost. That is not nude. It might be somebody else's nude. It's not my nude. And we see this nude issue with lipsticks. If I wear it, I think my son will be like, I disown you, get your life together. [00:35:49] He told somebody the other day his Auntie who promised him a gift. Yeah, auntie get your life together.
Rachel: I need him as my life coach!
[00:36:00 Khadija: She did not send him the present as promised and he had words for her. So if I was wearing whatever the fashion industry considers nude. I think he would tell me to get my life together. And then I would tell him to tell the fashion industry to get their life together. It's certainly not my fault. We just want to see diversity of range of colours. [00:36:21] Ballerinas are still not having full range. You see that every couple of weeks an article on ballerinas not having nude. We want to see more inclusive nude. It's not that complex. I want to have a nice, beautiful nude. And I know Mac actually has a great one, but you know, let's have options. Once you get gifts, give us options, stop giving us one thing and then we have to fight and that's all we have. [00:36:46] We want options. So I think that actually would be really great. And oh, one of my other favorites. Can we see older people?
Rachel: Oh yeah.
Khadija: Older people do this stop wearing clothes, are they walking around naked? Last I checked, [00:37:00] they wear clothes.
Rachel: Definitely do!
Khadija: They still sexy. They want to get their look on? They still want to have, you know, pizazz. I don't know about you, [00:37:09] I'm going to be 60 and be like, [00:37:15] you know what I mean? We don't see age diversity. We don't see it, we don't see people with grey hair. We're not inclusive of that demographic once again. And I think to end I would say I would love to see more diversity behind the scenes. We don’t see enough [00:37:32] diversity on the screen. I mean, just at the front with models. And even if they weren't, you know, there were people of color. What we know is that people will still go well, the light Black people, not the dark Black people, even that's an issue. It's like, well, they're light enough. We'll just have that. It's like, well, give us all black people like a whole range, but I would like to see diversity behind the scenes. [00:37:52] Because I think that is about investment, that's about representation. It's actually seeing the value in the work that people of color, [00:38:00] people who are diverse, of diverse abilities have in hiring us behind the scenes, not just at the front, but behind. And I think that doesn't get talked about enough - behind the scenes. [00:38:11] So that would really be great.
Rachel: Yeah, gosh, that's absolutely. I think you've solved the fashion industry there Khadija. Definitely! Because I know the the reason why we do, like, what we do is because I remember when I was, you know, growing up and I was trying on, you know, clothing and like I used to go shopping with my friends with Laura and I used to try on stuff and [00:38:30] my friends used to say, Oh gosh, I wish I was taller. Or, you know, slimmer or, you know, wanting to change stuff about themselves, because it didn't fit into clothing and I was like, I don't understand how we're all different, all different shapes and sizes, you know, ethnicities disabilities. Like, why are we feeling like you said rubbish about ourselves, [00:38:47] because we don't fit into clothing, but when it's something that someone else has made make you feel like that. And I was like, why is the fashion industry like that? I think that so true. And like you said behind the scenes as [00:39:00] well, I think that's so important because we're not going to have inclusivity [00:39:04] if you know, it's not every part of the industry, the people you know making decisions behind the scenes - the photographers. And as well, we were saying the other day, because obviously with like fashion week going on - was it Milan fashion week with Versace was it? Um, London, uh, yeah, well, one of the fashion weeks, Versace had a plus size black model and that was like, you know, breaking news, which is obviously great to [00:39:26] see diversity and inclusion, but why are we celebrating just one model out of the whole fashion week, like, you know what I mean? It just didn't make any sense why are we celebrating that. It's just crazy.
Khadija: The bare minimum, why are we clapping for crumbs?
Rachel: It’s so true. And was it, we were reading, [00:39:46] I think it was it 2017, I think in the fashion weeks there were no disabled models. There were no trans models. How is that accepted as like the norm? I don't understand how that hasn't been challenged. So I think that's such a good point. Like you [00:40:00] said, behind the scenes.
Khadija: So I think in 2020, we should start calling out brands and I think we need to start boycotting them. [00:40:08] There is power and one of your questions was going to be, I think around what advice for consumers. I got excited to tell you the answer to it. [00:40:20] As consumers, our cash - that's the power. When we choose to spend it - the power calling out companies has never been easier with social media. You sliding in the DM, you go into the comment section and you tell them what you think. That's the point, we have that power. They actually have a responsibility to us. So let's not get it twisted. [00:40:41] They're not doing a favor, it's money for them at the end of the day. So I think every consumer realises their power in their money then make choices that are right. Do your research about brands. When I go to a website, I read the ‘about the brand’ side. I look at brands that give money to causes. For example, [00:41:00] Mac is probably one of these. [00:41:01] I've always loved how they give back because I would spend extra 20 for that giving back, they do have an extra 20, because they support LGBTIQ+ community. I will give them the extra 20. So do your research because you have power in where you put your money. Don't go for the quick fashion and quick buy - check where your money is going, check how they’re paying the people who make their products. [00:41:24] You don't want to add to slavery. You don't want to add to the exploitation of other women and girls across the world. Check. We have options now. So check and do your research. Use your money wisely. It's like a vote. You use it like your voting system. So think carefully. Who do I want to give my vote to? Who do I want to support? [00:41:46] You have a choice in that when we start hurting brands, where it counts, they will change. We have seen that. It works. It works when you name and shame them, when their stock value goes down, they will change their behavior. [00:42:00] When we say we will not shop from transphobic, racist, misogynist brands, they would change. Let's give our money to those doing the right thing.
[00:42:10] Let's support local companies. Let's support that, those marginalized communities, when Black lives matter happened - What did we say? Support Black businesses. Support them was such a simple thing to do, put money invest in them- that at the end of the day, then you are saying I actually stand for something. [00:42:29] Not just I'll just put it in a little black box. Put your money where your mouth is. And I think the other most important thing is the calling out. The calling has to happen. You can't say you stand for anything if you don't hold people accountable, including ourselves. It's very easy to go and do a company search on Instagram, in the comments section and say, ‘Hey, excuse me [00:42:49] I noticed your timeline doesn't have diversity’. It's easy. Oh I noticed when I scrolled I can't see anyone with disability here. I haven't seen any trans people [00:43:00]. Hello, it’s so simple. Look, we are generation Y, we're the millennials. We are the people who want to talk and got that oompa loompa orange President to have a whole event [00:43:13] that was empty. We got power. Okay. We got power. I say, start using it for less petty stuff and more things that actually matter because obviously as a generation we have shown, we know how to kick ass when we want to kick ass. Why don't we start doing that in a meaningful way, in a way that creates an inclusive and diverse society. [00:43:35] Because to be honest, we're the ones who hurt. We are the ones hurt when we don't fight this fight. If I don't fight the fight, I do for gender equality, a new world where everyone, regardless of race, sexuality, class, ability is able to thrive. It's my son who suffers, we all have a responsibility to contribute. So if every day you just take [00:43:59] one [00:44:00] action. It could be go on the brands Instagram and go give them your opinion. Don't be a ‘Karen’ though.[00:44:14] But stick with the fights and call them out and raise questions around their diversity and inclusion. The Instagram is an easy way to do that because you can clearly see the evidence or absence of it. Such an, pose a question “Hey, I notice a lack of”, yeah. Quite easy. If you do that once a day, that's your petty count.
[00:44:40] Rachel: Get it out of your system. [00:44:43] Yeah, I love that. I think that's a really good challenge as well, because I think did we mention on another Viewpoint Laura, about gender equality and brands because I see a lot of people talk about gender equality, but then they’re buying from brands like you said you have, you know, [00:45:00] slave in the, um, supply chain and like all, you know, violence against women and girls in the supply chain. [00:45:05] So I think that's the way of the good challenge to people to really think about that link between gender equality and, you know, and certain brands as well. So that's brilliant. And then, like you said, go on social media and get a bit petty and also like you said, vote with money. I think with me and Laura having like a small fashion brand ourselves, like you said.
Khadija: What, no you don’t! Tell me about it
[00:45:32] Rachel: Sorry Khadija, I thought I put in the email. So I had the idea 10 years ago, so that’s what I talked about. So I was 14. We make dresses that have a hidden zip around the waist so it can have a different size top to bottom. So you can have like, you know, a 12 on top 16 on the button. Like over 90% of women are a different size top to bottom and you can also like mix and match the tops and the skirts to create different [00:45:53] combinations. But it's really about, you know, celebrating that we’re all different shapes and sizes and creating dresses that fit to us,[00:46:00] rather than feeling that we have to change ourselves to fit into dresses. But it has been a really long slog because having to find a factory who can offer any size and finding people who share our values. [00:46:11] So it has taken a long time as the idea hadn't been done before. So we are still very small but like you said it's just about, you know, following your values as you know, we wouldn’t want to create a brand that wasn't about values. So I think that's perfect to kind of summarise.
Khadija: I love it! I love it!
[00:46:32] No, I was just thinking, like you said, voting with your money, like that's what really supports businesses so I think we didn't really appreciate that until we kind of, you know, probably similar to you Khadija like before you started your company that can like show you support. So I think that's brilliant.
[00:46:47] So we need to support more female entrepreneurs. That's also how we stand for gender equality. Support women brands, support women's businesses. Give them your money, your [00:47:00] support, you are creating that equality. If we aren’t going to do that, then you know, we can’t then say, ‘Oh, we don't have enough female entrepreneurs’. [00:47:06] Their businesses go bust because they're not supported. And women entrepreneurs are less likely to get investments because most of where the money is, it's patriarchal, it's men, banks, men. So we can use our money, our dollar amount by supporting female businesses. That's another way of standing up for gender equality.
[00:47:26] Rachel: That's perfect! Thank you so much Khadija. Honestly, like Laura said at the start, you can't help but feel inspired and empowered. So thank you so so much. I’ll make sure to share everything that you mentioned so people can get involved and yeah, just thank you so much. It’s honestly been amazing! Thank you!
Khadija: Thank you for having me!
Rachel: Thank you!